Linux Versus Windows debate
"Computers are like air conditioners - They stop working properly when you open Windows !"
"Windows XP rocks" (Imam Jumhoor)
"What is meant here by rocks is rocks the very circuits of your machine because it is so badly written and inefficient" (Sharh al-Jumhooriyyah)
McMood: Haha, that was quite funny. But what I want to know, did you have to write some code and then compile it in order to execute such humour?
SS:
SS: See Saleem and Mahmud — saying that Windows is better than Linux is like saying a Nissan Micra is better than a Ferrari. Allow me to explain. See Linux is a good, feature rich operating system that is efficient, fast and a beauty to behold. This is exemplified by the fact that everyone uses it for their backend servers — where they need super fast efficiency and superb reliability. However you need to know how to use this operating system. If you are too computer illiterate to use it, you will have to use something like windows, which is far easier to use, a hell of a lot slower, not reliable at all, and not so much of a thing of beauty.
See not everyone has the driving skills to handle a ferrari, which is a feat of engineering ingenuity. You need to have the skills to actually make use of the beauty of this car. If you dont have the necessary skills, anyone and everyone can drive micra. But no-one would ever claim that a micra is a better car than a ferrari would they. Savvy?
Saleem: Actually the analogy fails on a number of counts but in any case, I have said it once and I will say it again....LIKE IT MATTERS!!! Also, what does Shafiq know about cars anyway?! Stick to being a Grover mate!
McMood: SS, can you actually drive yet? Do you still get your wife to drive you around? Or have you just passed and can only drive your wife's car? How can you comment on what a ferrari is like to drive when you probably have never touched one, for that matter have you even driven a Nissan Micra!? In fact your argument is so flawed, I am wondering if you are even sane. Ferrari's are notorious to collapse after around 2000 miles without a full service - are you saying Linux is not reliable and cannot go for long before crashing? Micra's on the other hand are known for their reliability! Known for never breaking down! Known for being inexpensive! Are you saying this is comparable to the Microsoft OS? So, if you are not insane that logically means that your arguments are just nonsensical and Windows is a better operating system for the end user than the Linux OS Distributions.
Now thats what I called "Battered, fried and eaten!"
Oh yes and guess what Saleem - it isn't a surprise that Awif the other Linux evangelist cannot drive either!
Interesting read :
Myths, Lies, and Truths about the Linux kernel
This is about ATI Linux drvers :
ATI Linux Blog
NEWSFLASH:
Micro$oft uses Linux to implement campus-wide Wireless within their OWN COMPANY ! Details here ... http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.php/id;754084996;fp;2;fpid;1
Plus, a rebuttal of the claim that Linux can't be a viable Desktop Solution :
http://www.suseblog.com/?p=127
Battered, fried and eaten ... again !
NEWSFLASH:
McMood: Saleem you reckon we wounded them up enough yet? Naaaaah...
Sigh, they are so narrow minded, they refer to cusses of Windows from Linux geeks like themselves on websites designed and produced by the Kings and Queens of this geekish world.
It will be good once more ppl use Linux, cos I guess only then will Linux lot be forced to make their products usable. Otherwise as is probably the case 90% ppl who see this Wiki use Windows and will remain as such, why? cos simply its user-friendly and ANY user, not exclusive for geekazoids.
Oh and the reason why Ubuntu is hitting of crazily amongst the linux community, cos they realised the use of a mouse, you can now click on things to select what needs to be installed. Oh, but you still have to search for the program, beware titles can be quite mind bogglingly geeky, like Ubuntu, Dapper, Smeg etc etc. Happy searching.
Wifter: As usual, hiding behind empty words with no evidence whatsoever for their untenable position ... tsk tsk. What a hopeless lot you are ...
McMood: I have been reliably informed that both Atiq and Refi refuse Shafiq from touching/partitioning their computers with Linux as for some reason he has the "touch of death" when it comes to installing Linux. But, hold on isnt Linux like really class? I have been told it is amazing once it is up and running. I guess what is not understood is that to get it up and running is something quite elusive. Secondly, I have confirmation that Linux is better and its applications but because it is unable to get drivers to work natively with it, it faces an uphill struggle to compete. We never said Linux was not better than Windows but we did say the average Joe would not be able to install it - as he wouldn't have a clue how to install the countless missing drivers. So the conclusion: Linux is not yet a real replacement for every computer person - it is only for the adventurous and computer geeks.
Saleem: What the blaa is "tsk tsk"? The English for this is "tut tut" u pakis!!!!
NOTE: NEWSFLASH: McMood: In the evangelisers attempts into proving Linux is suitable for every single person, they decided to install it on my brand new Laptop. My laptop is now mashed! I need to go to dell now to seek forgiveness for blaspheming their hardware with Linux.
2nd NOTE: NEWSFLASH 2: McMood: HAHAHAHAHAHA, the evangelist just mashed up his parents computer now too! 2 computers in 2 days - Linux is soooooooooo easy to install! And this was installed by a Linux Professional! No names menioned, Famous words: "If I didn't bodge it up before I certainly have now!"
Self Battered and Fried
3nd NOTE: NEWSFLASH 3: Asda: Ask Refi for confirmation on this issue, but no repentence nor seeking of forgiveness will be accepted unless you personally phone up Sh Rabee' himself and make tawbah to the shaikh!
The Debate
McMood: There isn't one. Everyone knows Windows is just a million times more user friendly which makes up for its inadequacies compared to Linux. (General Consensus amongst sane ppl)
SS: You know I have to disagree with you there. But I shall not argue the case since I use windows at home and at work
.
McMood: What part of that statement do you actually disagree with?
SS: <Arnie>'Aaaaallluvit</Arnie>
SS: See you have to sample the evil to truly appreciate how bad it is. So in using windows I learn exactly how crap it is and can give an informed opinion on the matter. Whereas people who only use Windows can never make any informed judgement on Linux
McMood: This morning an avid linux evangelist sent me an email saying the following:
http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,125706,pg,13,00.asp
check number 27
Have a nice read, I am not sure yet if the person has shot himself in the foot or not, is it a review praising Linux or is it actually highlighting the very reason why Linux is not used by the "general" user.
Oh some snippets for you all to digest on:
In the meantime, if these are features you crave, check out Smeg, the Simple Menu Editor for Gnome
and
I had harbored fervent hopes that the Breezy Badger would have better support for wireless networking. I've been kvetching in this space for more than a year about the lack of an easy, point-and-click interface for Wi-Fi network selection on the Gnome desktop. When I'm someplace where the Internet is flowing freely through the airwhether it be at a trade show, a coffee shop, or my own living roomI should be able to peruse a list of available networks, clicking to select one to glom on to. This sort of functionality, which has been standard in Windows and the Mac OS for some time now, remains elusive in Ubuntu Linux.
McMood: So Ubuntu to you to! SMEG!
Wifter : Umm, I think the 'feature' the writer requires is something called NetworkManager which has been around for many months now ...
http://www.gnome.org/projects/NetworkManager/
McMood: Err he commented on this too!
There's a solution out there called NetworkManager that brings exactly the functionality I'm looking for to the Gnome Desktop; it's included in Fedora Core 4, and perhaps other distros I haven't checked on in a while. But no working NetworkManager package yet exists for Breezy. Compiling and installing NetworkManager by hand may be possible, but right now I don't have a Sunday to devote to that sort of trial. So I limp along with what's available in Ubuntu, a little network selector called Netapplet that becomes completely befuddled when it encounters a wireless network it hasn't seen before. I hope the next version of Ubuntu (Mangy Muskrat? Drunken Duckling? Ornery Otter?) includes NetworkManager or some similar solution.
Wifter: Umm, Mahmud, perhaps it hasn't struck you yet, but your criticism is therefore against Ubuntu Breezy (the previous release), and not against Ubuntu Dapper (the current release which HAS NetworkManager) nor is it against GNU/Linux in general, which have had NetworkManager for many months.
Comprendo ? Note: <OPEN PROGRAM=HUMOUR> If this is the case, then I agree with you, and if not then you are a sticky dumpling in a bowl of custard. <End Execution of Humour Command> GNU/GPL/V.0.001
SS: McMood EVERYONE agrees that Linux is a better OS than Windows. The only argument some (very very) bright individuals have is that the usability of Windows is the pivotal factor. Oh and did I mention I use windows almost exclusively and that I will never revert to using Linux under its current degenerate infrastructure.
Saleem: So you're being treacherous to linux? Yeah, like it matters which OS is better, the fact remains that geeks like and use linux. Va jakkaynaahum tajkeeyaa (probs wrong but better for comedy effect!)
McMood: Sorry I got it wrong guys, it wasnt Ubuntu Breezy it is Ubuntu Dapper. So get it right guys, its Dapper software. Daptastic! Dip sticks?! and Smeg! come to mind...
Oh and they are trying to indoctrinate from kindergarten - http://www.edubuntu.org/Screenshots
you have to give it to them they are trying hard. What they don't understand when the child becomes vaguely literate they will switch to Microsoft because you cannot play PC games effectively under a linux environment cos they dont support half the graphical features. If it did it would be probably good. If they had lots of things it would be amazing, but, its still at the IF stage...and it is quite iffy...
Wifter: Umm, Quake3, Doom3 and Quake4 all work under Linux. Are you saying those games don't have "half the graphical features" of other Windows-based games ?
McMood at least be honest in your assessment of Linux's portability of games. It is unfortunately way behind, it cannot even support many high grade graphics cards - example my laptop, ATI x1400 radeon it does not support acceleration hence I get a max res of 1280x800 on laptop and juddering when moving screens up and down. The only games that Linux really supports are Quake and Unreal Tournament - I have checked many many Linux game sites. Apart from that the rest are obscure games and do not support the latest games. And Quake 4 is far from the leading edge of graphics of other games...
Wifter:
1) Umm, OpenGL is the 3D graphics subsystem that Linux uses - along with all major Graphics Workstations (eg SGI). OpenGL is a decadeds-established Open format for 3D graphics. Games written to the OpenGL API will work under Linux.
DirectX is a Microsoft-specific 3D graphics API. Games written to the DirectX API will only run on Windows because only Windows supports DirectX. Hence, a DirectX-only game will not work on Linux.
2) ATI is responsible for releasing Linux drivers for its graphics cards. If they don't release drivers as good as their Windows ones then they are to be blamed - not Linux. Use an nVidia card instead - their Linux drivers are just as good as their Windows ones. In fact in some benchmarks the Linux drivers outperform the Windows ones on the same hardware.
3) PS3 is using a Linux-based operating system. Can you still say that Linux can't do 3D graphics ?
SS: As our good friend Saggy Sagford used to say: Battered fried and eaten!!
"Computers are like air conditioners - They stop working properly when you open Windows !"
"Windows XP rocks" (Imam Jumhoor)
"What is meant here by rocks is rocks the very circuits of your machine because it is so badly written and inefficient" (Sharh al-Jumhooriyyah)
McMood: Haha, that was quite funny. But what I want to know, did you have to write some code and then compile it in order to execute such humour?
SS:
SS: See Saleem and Mahmud — saying that Windows is better than Linux is like saying a Nissan Micra is better than a Ferrari. Allow me to explain. See Linux is a good, feature rich operating system that is efficient, fast and a beauty to behold. This is exemplified by the fact that everyone uses it for their backend servers — where they need super fast efficiency and superb reliability. However you need to know how to use this operating system. If you are too computer illiterate to use it, you will have to use something like windows, which is far easier to use, a hell of a lot slower, not reliable at all, and not so much of a thing of beauty.
See not everyone has the driving skills to handle a ferrari, which is a feat of engineering ingenuity. You need to have the skills to actually make use of the beauty of this car. If you dont have the necessary skills, anyone and everyone can drive micra. But no-one would ever claim that a micra is a better car than a ferrari would they. Savvy?
Saleem: Actually the analogy fails on a number of counts but in any case, I have said it once and I will say it again....LIKE IT MATTERS!!! Also, what does Shafiq know about cars anyway?! Stick to being a Grover mate!
McMood: SS, can you actually drive yet? Do you still get your wife to drive you around? Or have you just passed and can only drive your wife's car? How can you comment on what a ferrari is like to drive when you probably have never touched one, for that matter have you even driven a Nissan Micra!? In fact your argument is so flawed, I am wondering if you are even sane. Ferrari's are notorious to collapse after around 2000 miles without a full service - are you saying Linux is not reliable and cannot go for long before crashing? Micra's on the other hand are known for their reliability! Known for never breaking down! Known for being inexpensive! Are you saying this is comparable to the Microsoft OS? So, if you are not insane that logically means that your arguments are just nonsensical and Windows is a better operating system for the end user than the Linux OS Distributions.
Now thats what I called "Battered, fried and eaten!"
Oh yes and guess what Saleem - it isn't a surprise that Awif the other Linux evangelist cannot drive either!
Interesting read :
Myths, Lies, and Truths about the Linux kernel
This is about ATI Linux drvers :
ATI Linux Blog
NEWSFLASH:
Micro$oft uses Linux to implement campus-wide Wireless within their OWN COMPANY ! Details here ... http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.php/id;754084996;fp;2;fpid;1
Plus, a rebuttal of the claim that Linux can't be a viable Desktop Solution :
http://www.suseblog.com/?p=127
Battered, fried and eaten ... again !
NEWSFLASH:
McMood: Saleem you reckon we wounded them up enough yet? Naaaaah...
Sigh, they are so narrow minded, they refer to cusses of Windows from Linux geeks like themselves on websites designed and produced by the Kings and Queens of this geekish world.
It will be good once more ppl use Linux, cos I guess only then will Linux lot be forced to make their products usable. Otherwise as is probably the case 90% ppl who see this Wiki use Windows and will remain as such, why? cos simply its user-friendly and ANY user, not exclusive for geekazoids.
Oh and the reason why Ubuntu is hitting of crazily amongst the linux community, cos they realised the use of a mouse, you can now click on things to select what needs to be installed. Oh, but you still have to search for the program, beware titles can be quite mind bogglingly geeky, like Ubuntu, Dapper, Smeg etc etc. Happy searching.
Wifter: As usual, hiding behind empty words with no evidence whatsoever for their untenable position ... tsk tsk. What a hopeless lot you are ...
McMood: I have been reliably informed that both Atiq and Refi refuse Shafiq from touching/partitioning their computers with Linux as for some reason he has the "touch of death" when it comes to installing Linux. But, hold on isnt Linux like really class? I have been told it is amazing once it is up and running. I guess what is not understood is that to get it up and running is something quite elusive. Secondly, I have confirmation that Linux is better and its applications but because it is unable to get drivers to work natively with it, it faces an uphill struggle to compete. We never said Linux was not better than Windows but we did say the average Joe would not be able to install it - as he wouldn't have a clue how to install the countless missing drivers. So the conclusion: Linux is not yet a real replacement for every computer person - it is only for the adventurous and computer geeks.
Saleem: What the blaa is "tsk tsk"? The English for this is "tut tut" u pakis!!!!
NOTE: NEWSFLASH: McMood: In the evangelisers attempts into proving Linux is suitable for every single person, they decided to install it on my brand new Laptop. My laptop is now mashed! I need to go to dell now to seek forgiveness for blaspheming their hardware with Linux.
2nd NOTE: NEWSFLASH 2: McMood: HAHAHAHAHAHA, the evangelist just mashed up his parents computer now too! 2 computers in 2 days - Linux is soooooooooo easy to install! And this was installed by a Linux Professional! No names menioned, Famous words: "If I didn't bodge it up before I certainly have now!"
Self Battered and Fried
3nd NOTE: NEWSFLASH 3: Asda: Ask Refi for confirmation on this issue, but no repentence nor seeking of forgiveness will be accepted unless you personally phone up Sh Rabee' himself and make tawbah to the shaikh!
The Debate
McMood: There isn't one. Everyone knows Windows is just a million times more user friendly which makes up for its inadequacies compared to Linux. (General Consensus amongst sane ppl)
SS: You know I have to disagree with you there. But I shall not argue the case since I use windows at home and at work
.McMood: What part of that statement do you actually disagree with?
SS: <Arnie>'Aaaaallluvit</Arnie>
SS: See you have to sample the evil to truly appreciate how bad it is. So in using windows I learn exactly how crap it is and can give an informed opinion on the matter. Whereas people who only use Windows can never make any informed judgement on Linux
McMood: This morning an avid linux evangelist sent me an email saying the following:
http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,125706,pg,13,00.asp
check number 27
Have a nice read, I am not sure yet if the person has shot himself in the foot or not, is it a review praising Linux or is it actually highlighting the very reason why Linux is not used by the "general" user.
Oh some snippets for you all to digest on:
In the meantime, if these are features you crave, check out Smeg, the Simple Menu Editor for Gnome
and
I had harbored fervent hopes that the Breezy Badger would have better support for wireless networking. I've been kvetching in this space for more than a year about the lack of an easy, point-and-click interface for Wi-Fi network selection on the Gnome desktop. When I'm someplace where the Internet is flowing freely through the air
McMood: So Ubuntu to you to! SMEG!
Wifter : Umm, I think the 'feature' the writer requires is something called NetworkManager which has been around for many months now ...
http://www.gnome.org/projects/NetworkManager/
McMood: Err he commented on this too!
There's a solution out there called NetworkManager that brings exactly the functionality I'm looking for to the Gnome Desktop; it's included in Fedora Core 4, and perhaps other distros I haven't checked on in a while. But no working NetworkManager package yet exists for Breezy. Compiling and installing NetworkManager by hand may be possible, but right now I don't have a Sunday to devote to that sort of trial. So I limp along with what's available in Ubuntu, a little network selector called Netapplet that becomes completely befuddled when it encounters a wireless network it hasn't seen before. I hope the next version of Ubuntu (Mangy Muskrat? Drunken Duckling? Ornery Otter?) includes NetworkManager or some similar solution.
Wifter: Umm, Mahmud, perhaps it hasn't struck you yet, but your criticism is therefore against Ubuntu Breezy (the previous release), and not against Ubuntu Dapper (the current release which HAS NetworkManager) nor is it against GNU/Linux in general, which have had NetworkManager for many months.
Comprendo ? Note: <OPEN PROGRAM=HUMOUR> If this is the case, then I agree with you, and if not then you are a sticky dumpling in a bowl of custard. <End Execution of Humour Command> GNU/GPL/V.0.001
SS: McMood EVERYONE agrees that Linux is a better OS than Windows. The only argument some (very very) bright individuals have is that the usability of Windows is the pivotal factor. Oh and did I mention I use windows almost exclusively and that I will never revert to using Linux under its current degenerate infrastructure.
Saleem: So you're being treacherous to linux? Yeah, like it matters which OS is better, the fact remains that geeks like and use linux. Va jakkaynaahum tajkeeyaa (probs wrong but better for comedy effect!)
McMood: Sorry I got it wrong guys, it wasnt Ubuntu Breezy it is Ubuntu Dapper. So get it right guys, its Dapper software. Daptastic! Dip sticks?! and Smeg! come to mind...
Oh and they are trying to indoctrinate from kindergarten - http://www.edubuntu.org/Screenshots
you have to give it to them they are trying hard. What they don't understand when the child becomes vaguely literate they will switch to Microsoft because you cannot play PC games effectively under a linux environment cos they dont support half the graphical features. If it did it would be probably good. If they had lots of things it would be amazing, but, its still at the IF stage...and it is quite iffy...
Wifter: Umm, Quake3, Doom3 and Quake4 all work under Linux. Are you saying those games don't have "half the graphical features" of other Windows-based games ?
McMood at least be honest in your assessment of Linux's portability of games. It is unfortunately way behind, it cannot even support many high grade graphics cards - example my laptop, ATI x1400 radeon it does not support acceleration hence I get a max res of 1280x800 on laptop and juddering when moving screens up and down. The only games that Linux really supports are Quake and Unreal Tournament - I have checked many many Linux game sites. Apart from that the rest are obscure games and do not support the latest games. And Quake 4 is far from the leading edge of graphics of other games...
Wifter:
1) Umm, OpenGL is the 3D graphics subsystem that Linux uses - along with all major Graphics Workstations (eg SGI). OpenGL is a decadeds-established Open format for 3D graphics. Games written to the OpenGL API will work under Linux.
DirectX is a Microsoft-specific 3D graphics API. Games written to the DirectX API will only run on Windows because only Windows supports DirectX. Hence, a DirectX-only game will not work on Linux.
2) ATI is responsible for releasing Linux drivers for its graphics cards. If they don't release drivers as good as their Windows ones then they are to be blamed - not Linux. Use an nVidia card instead - their Linux drivers are just as good as their Windows ones. In fact in some benchmarks the Linux drivers outperform the Windows ones on the same hardware.
3) PS3 is using a Linux-based operating system. Can you still say that Linux can't do 3D graphics ?
SS: As our good friend Saggy Sagford used to say: Battered fried and eaten!!
;){kind=link}